1. God the Father is spirit and is invisible
Firstly, before identifying possible earlier earthly visitations of Jesus, the Word, in the bible, we need to define, God the Father.
At least then, we can't get confused about that part of the God head (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
John 4:24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
1Ti 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, honour and glory forever and ever. Amen.
He also appeared in pillars of fire and cloud…
Exodus 13:21 (all the Israelites escaping Egypt) And the LORD was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, so that they might travel by day and by night.
He also “appeared” in a box called the “Ark”
And his presence resided in the Ark of the Covenant, which had to be hidden behind curtains, transported in a certain way (Hebrews 9:2-5) and if touched resulted in death as happened to Uzzah (1 Chronicles 13:10). The Mercy Seat (over the ark) was where God would dwell. He said, “There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites” (Exodus 25:22).
Only a select few could go in next to the Ark and they left a rope trailing out of the inner sanctum, attached to their foot so they could be dragged out if they died and needed to be removed, though biblically only bells are mentioned. Exodus 28:33–35,
And seeing his face means you die…
Exo 33:20 He further said, “You cannot see My face, for mankind shall not see Me and live!”
So another mechanism is/was needed for the plenty of people talking with God throughout the Bible…..
2. Times before Jesus, where God came to earth as “the Angel of the Lord” (Not Christophanies per se, because start off being called angelic) ….
In Hebrew word translated as “angel” is malak, which means “messenger.” This particular messenger is not just any angel, but the “angel of the Lord.” The messenger of Yahweh—or in Hebrew, malak Yahweh—is the only messenger who bears the name of Yahweh.
Sometimes the angel of the Lord speaks as if he is a messenger from Yahweh, and other times he speaks as if he is Yahweh. The author wants to communicate something more. The “contradiction” is intentional.
The consistent way that the authors refer to the angel of the Lord as both Yahweh and distinct from Yahweh not only helps us understand this mysterious figure, but it also makes a profound claim about the identity of Yahweh, namely, that Yahweh himself is a complex being. Some other complex ways “the angel of the lord” is portrayed in scripture….
Gen 16:7 (Hagar) Now the angel of the LORD found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. Gen 16:8 He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s slave woman, from where have you come, and where are you going?” Gen 16:10 The angel of the LORD also said to her, “I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be too many to count.”
Firstly as with the first recorded dialogue between man and God, this character asks a question. A simple question on the face of it, but laced with meaning. Gen 3:9 "Where are you?" Gen 3:11 "Who told you that you were naked?". So this character, though described as the messenger/representative of the Lord, is if so, going off script, not imparting a message but engaging and questioning with, I would suggest His creation, Hagar.
“I”??!! Who does this angel think he is? Keep going, and the angel of the Lord speaks about Yahweh as a separate person, saying, Genesis 16:11 “Yahweh has heard your affliction” At best, we think this angel is speaking on behalf of Yahweh—that is, until the narrator tells us it was Yahweh who spoke to her! And Hagar calls this angel “God.”
Gen 22:10-12 (Abraham). And Abraham reached out with his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son. But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” He said, “Do not reach out your hand against the boy, and do not do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”
Here the “Angel” ends with the word “from Me” (FWIW capitals added, but they didn’t appear in Hebrew) so talking then as if God.
Exodus 3:2-4 (Moses) Then the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not being consumed. So Moses said, “I must turn aside and see this marvellous sight, why the bush is not burning up!” When the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”
The Angel of the Lord in a fire in a bush, The Lord Yᵊhōvâ seeing that Moses was looking at said fire, but then “God” 'ĕlōhîm calling out to Moses. Not entirely clear what’s going on but it seems human encounters with “Him” are rarely depicted as 1-2-1 scenarios.
Num 22:22-23 (Balaam) (All of Num 22 is needed for context, including the talking donkey!) But God was angry that he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the road as an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn in his hand…..Num 22:32 Then the angel of the LORD said to him, “Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come out as an adversary, because your way was reckless and contrary to me.
Again it starts with Angel of the Lord, but ends with said Angel talking as if God in the first person.
Judges 6:11-14 (Gideon) Then the angel of the LORD came and sat under the oak that was in Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, as his son Gideon was beating out wheat in the wine press in order to save it from the Midianites. And the angel of the LORD appeared to him and said to him, “The LORD is with you, valiant warrior.” Then Gideon said to him, “O my lord, if the LORD is with us, why then has all this happened to us? And where are all His miracles which our fathers told us about, saying, ‘Did the LORD not bring us up from Egypt?’ But now the LORD has abandoned us and handed us over to Midian.”. And the LORD looked at him and said, “Go in this strength of yours and save Israel from the hand of Midian. Have I not sent you?”
Again a sitting, talking, Angel, mid flow starts talking as or is named by the author as, the Lord himself.
1 Kings 19:5 (Elijah) Then he lay down and fell asleep under a broom tree; but behold, there was an angel touching him, and he said to him, “Arise, eat!” 1 Kings 19:9 Then he came there to a cave and spent the night there; and behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and He said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?” 1 Kings 19:11-13 So He said, “Go out and stand on the mountain before the LORD.” And behold, the LORD was passing by! And a great and powerful wind was tearing out the mountains and breaking the rocks in pieces before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind. And after the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. And after the earthquake, a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire, a sound of a gentle blowing. When Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his cloak and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. And behold, a voice came to him and said, “What are you doing here, Elijah?” 1 Kings 19:15 The LORD said to him, “Go, return on your way to the wilderness of Damascus; and when you have arrived, you shall anoint Hazael king over Aram.
In what seems like an ongoing discourse in a few near by locations, we go from an angel touching him, to the “word of the Lord” (synonymous with Christ Jesus) coming to Elijah and telling him to “go outside and stand before God” (further delineation between Their persons/locations), to the Lord passing by - but not in the big wind/earthquake or fire – maybe He’s in the sound of a gentle blowing, the author doesn’t say. But outside he gets the same question “What are you doing here, Elijah?” that the “word of the Lord” had asked inside, from a “voice”, then the LORD saying to him ”Go, return on your way…Head blown yet?
1 Chronicles 21 (David) 16 Then David raised his eyes and saw the angel of the LORD standing between earth and heaven, with his drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, covered with sackcloth, fell on their faces.
David then address “God” and the Angel isn’t described as speaking or spoken to. None the less, what “angel” would have power to destroy Jerusalem? That’s usually Yahweh.
Exodus 23:20-21 (Moses) “Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him.
Yahweh tells Moses that this angel will lead them, saying, “my name is in him.” Left this one till last, because strictly speaking it is described as “an angel”.
3. Times before Jesus of Nazareth, where God came to earth as a man (Christophanies) ….
Mary physically gave birth to Jesus Christ and we read about him being born, at about 2 and 11 (13?) years old and then 3 years of his life, around the age of 33-40. So His appearance will have altered as ours would during this time. But just imagine the same 33 year old visage (same looking person) in the below scenarios…
Adam and Eve met with God in Human form.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness;…” Who’s he talking to? Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Gen 3:8 Now they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 Then the LORD God Yᵊhōvâ 'ĕlōhîm called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?”
As outlined above, God the Father is Spirit and invisible and/or deadly to view, this chap evidently had legs, as He went for walks, so this is perhaps a Christophany.
Abraham met God in human form.
Abram met with God in Human form (and got renamed Abraham in one encounter)…
Genesis 15:1-5 “1. After these things the word of the LORD ( Yᵊhōvâ) came to Abram in a vision, saying…..5. And He took him outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” So a vision that took Abram outside, like a person might.
Genesis 17:1 Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD( Yᵊhōvâ) appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless.”
Genesis 18:1 Now the LORD ( Yᵊhōvâ) appeared to Abraham by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.
Genesis 18:2 When he raised his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed down to the ground,
Genesis 18:22 Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the LORD (so the other 2 men go).
Genesis 19:1 Now the two angels (later referred to as the 2 men) came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting at the gate of Sodom.
Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD (Yᵊhōvâ), rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah from the LORD (Yᵊhōvâ), out of heaven, (the Lord from the Lord! One the man on Earth, One the spirit/Father in Heaven)
Side note:
in Chapter, 15 Abraham gets the promise of many descendants.
in Chapter, 16 Fed up of waiting, Abraham and his wife Sarai, conspire to sexually assault their slave Hagar, to try and get babies, then chase her away to certain death, when she get's pregnant. God looks out for Hagar.
in Chapter, 17 God comes back and says "oi, behave. It's coming, here have a new name".
Jacob met God in human form.
Abram (later named Abraham and had a son Isaac, who had a son Jacob
Jacob met with God in Human form (and got renamed Israel in one encounter)…..
Genesis 32:24 Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak.
Genesis 32:30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been spared.”
Joshua met God in human form.
Jos 5:13-15 Now it came about when Joshua was by Jericho, he raised his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand, and Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us or for our enemies?” 14. He said, “No; rather I have come now as captain of the army of the LORD.” And Joshua fell on his face to the ground, and bowed down, and said to him, “What has my lord to say to his servant?” 15 And the captain of the LORD’S army said to Joshua, “Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.
A man accepting worship can only be God in human form. The reference to Holy Ground is as God had said to his mentor Moses around the burning bush, so Joshua would have known who He was.
Jonah met God in human form.
Jon 1:1 “The word of the LORD came to Jonah the son of Amittai,…”
Firstly albeit only Jonah’s father is named, it suggests to me (but not C.S Lewis) that this is not ahistorical, but historical.
Secondly, we’ve got a “word of the LORD”, which John later says became flesh. John 1:14
Samuel met God in human form.
Son of Hannah, no other genealogy.
1 Samuel 3:10 Then the LORD Yᵊhōvâ came and stood, and called as at the other times: “Samuel! Samuel!” And Samuel said, “Speak, for Your servant is listening.”
1 Samuel 3:21 And the LORD appeared again at Shiloh, because the LORD revealed Himself to Samuel at Shiloh by the word of the LORD. dāḇār Yᵊhōvâ
Shadrack, Meshach and Abednego met God in human form.
Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. KJV ( he fourth is like a son of the gods!” NASB20)
“Four men (loose) walking”, The other 3 were Shadrack. Meshach and Abednego.
Christ has a habit of renaming people he meets with dodgy pasts... Abram (Abraham), Jacob (Israel), Simon (Peter), Saul (Paul). Can't see any link to make from this observation.
4. Times after.... is it an Angel is it Jesus Revelation to John….
In Revelation 1:1, John starts by saying the whole thing was "communicated" to him by His angel (messenger).
However, on turning to see who is speaking to him, in this unprecedented state of Rev 1:10, being "in the spirit on the Lord's day", which for now I'll just call being outside of time and space, John immediately is in conversation with Jesus and later elders. My suggestion is that, and this is a gross dumbing down to technology, when it is off course much more, that the Angel turned up with a giant iPad / portal and held it up for John to start talking directly with Jesus on the other end of the video call. Notwithstanding the over simplistic analogy, we now have a vague notion of how such communications work with our current technology, and the structure of these conversation and the actors in them, don't preclude a not dissimilar dynamic, albeit with the inclusion of multi-dimensions and outside-of-time, intruding into the temporal.